Dick Orkin

Dick Orkin is the owner of the Famous Radio Ranch, and one of most acclaimed radio commercial actors and producers of all time. He worked in Chicago radio at WCFL in the late 60s and early 70s.






Rick: I still think WCFL in the 1960s was one of the best radio stations of all time.

Dick: I agree.

Rick: How did you get in the door there?

Dick: Ken Draper (photo) was a program director in Cleveland prior to that, and I worked with him there. When he moved on to Chicago, he invited me to come work with him again, and I accepted his invitation. We were together there for a few years.

Rick: Did you realize while you were doing it how special that place was--the sheer amount of talent in one place at one time--I mean here it is more than 40 years later and I'm still asking you about it.

Dick: I recognized very quickly that Draper had assembled a great group. It was a great station for talent; Jim Runyon, Barney Pipp, Jim Stagg, Ron Britain.

Rick: Tell me about the creation of Chickenman. How did that start?

Dick: The origin of Chickenman was the direct result of the popularity of the television show "Batman". It was huge. It was camp. It was fun. Draper decided that each of the DJs should choose a campy superhero mascot, and for the Jim Runyon show, we came up with Chickenman. I sort of based the character on the Broderick Crawford sheriff character--that sort of straight, know it all delivery of his. It seemed like a fun thing to parody. It began with that. I wasn't thinking about a chicken.

Rick: A good twenty years after Chickenman ran originally, my alternative rock station was still running it. It really did transcend the time and format, didn't it?

Dick: Oh yeah, no question about it. The funny thing is, it wasn't intended to run for that long. We were thinking maybe a month. That was the way Draper ran things. His style was to run with something for the short term, and then replace it with something new, to stay as current as possible. No one seems to remember that all of the personalities at the time had their own superhero mascot. Ours was just the one that caught on.

After it did, Draper decided to syndicate it from WCFL for a few years until I left the station, and then I bought it. Even after I left, it continued to run as a serial, and I continued creating new episodes. It probably still runs on a dozen stations or so. My brother, who handles that now, will still get an occasional call from radio stations around the country.

Rick: Chickenman, of course, wasn't your only radio serial. You also did "Tooth Fairy". How did that one come about?

Dick: I only did Tooth Fairy as a follow up to Chickenman. It was requested by Draper. If I'm not mistaken, the Dental Association wanted a short term thing, a PSA sort of campaign, and it also became popular, and turned into a full fledged serial. Tooth Fairy ran on more stations than Chickenman did, but it didn't have the same life.

Rick: In the early 70s, you made the decision to leave radio--at least the structured world of working at a radio station. What led to that decision?

Dick: Well, the changing of programming at WCFL was the main thing. A radio rep firm came in and decided the musical format needed to change, and those changes didn't allow for enough time to keep Chickenman. It was really that. They did change their mind about it, but I wasn't comfortable with the new format. Plus, I was production director by then, and that just wasn't as fun for me. I also wanted to go into business for myself, and I found a partner that was willing to do it with me, and the timing just seemed right.

Rick: I think it's safe to say that your radio advertising work is just as famous, if not even more famous than your earlier stuff. Everybody has a favorite Dick Orkin spot. What have you figured out in those dialogue spots that no one else can seem to figure out? Is it the writing, the acting, the timing?

Dick: I don't know how to answer that. I just did it. You know, my background was in theater--I went to the Yale School of Drama. So I was far more interested in the dialogue, and creating real characters. My partners and I, first Bert Berdis, and then Christine Coyle (photo), would discuss our days and what was happening to us, and that's where a lot of those ideas came from. Real life. Our characters and scripts were based on people we knew. Our families and friends.

Rick: In 1978, you decided to relocate to Hollywood--the current home of the Famous Radio Ranch. What was the reason you did that?

Dick: The bill collectors were chasing me (laughs). Just kidding. It was the weather. Honestly, I was suffering from respiratory problems, and the weather was just making me sick. That's really the reason we moved out here.

Rick: There are fewer and fewer advertisers focusing on radio advertising these days. What is it that they are missing about radio's potential impact?

Dick: I don't think they see it as a theater opportunity. There are no limitations to radio--they don't think of it that way. Radio has the advantage of creating any stage you want, with a limitless cast of characters, in any location in the world, your imagination is your only limitation.They're so stuck in that straight spot with a single announcer. Their concept of dialogue is a rote, 'he said, she said' thing, and they don't really deviate from that.

Rick: Your list of admirers is long and distinguished. At least a dozen of my previous interviewees have mentioned you as an influence. Whose work do you admire, then and now?

Dick: Back then I was an admirer of Bob & Ray and Stan Freeberg, and people like that. I always loved the husband and wife team Stiller and Meara (photo). I actually got to know them for a period of time and we frequently talked to one another in New York and Chicago. They did a Blue Nun commercial that really changed radio in the late 60s, early 70s, which, by the way, was also based on their own experiences and their own lives.

As for who I admire now, I really regret that there isn't anyone I can think of. I wish it wasn't so. When I hear spots on the radio today they are usually pale imitations of sitcoms.

Rick: You're in several broadcasting Halls of Fame, but in 2010 you asked the NAB to take down your plaque in the Broadcast Hall of Fame because you didn't want to be associated with Rush Limbaugh after his tacky comments in the wake of the Haiti earthquake. Do you still feel that strongly about that?

Dick: There was a whole series of things he said, that was just the last straw for me. It hasn't changed. He's still out there with his foul-mouthed racist attitudes. The foul mouthed stuff didn't bother me. I always loved Howard Stern. It's the racist stuff--there's just no call for that. But Rush just doesn't know when to stop. And the targets he chooses--like the college student Ms. Fluke. He just attacked her again the other day. He has a marvelous opportunity--there are so many pompous and stupid politicians to make fun of, but he's so pompous himself, he can't recognize the opportunity. He's a great talent, but that talent is simply wasted doing what he's doing.

Cheryl Raye-Stout

Cheryl Raye Stout has been a Chicago radio sports reporter for nearly 30 years, and has taught Radio Sportscasting and Ethics in Broadcasting at Columbia College for the past 14 years.

She currently works at WBEZ.




Rick: What's the origin of your passion for sports? What drew you into this world in the first place?

Cheryl: Growing up on the west side of Chicago, I was one of nine children from a blue collar family. We spent as much time outside as possible playing every sport. Coming from a large family, there wasn't money for going to games, so I listened on radio, watched games on TV, and played a lot outdoors. Our backyard was our softball diamond. On the church steps next door, we would play pinners. In the evening, the neighborhood played spud. We would also go to the park and play pickup games of any sport.

However, girls were not allowed to play Little League or any truly organized sports. The CPS system did have an after school program at my grammar school. We played a number of sports; my specialty was softball and track and field. In high school, Title IX came the year I graduated so there were no scholarships for sports yet. I was active at Austin High School playing basketball and volleyball.

The passion for sports came from my maternal grandfather, a native of Poland, who lived with us. He was a retired coal truck driver that delivered coal to both Wrigley and Comiskey Park, and he loved baseball. He taught me to love the game and its history. He would watch every game with his beer and non-filtered cigarettes. That became a bonding experience, not the drinking and the smoking, but sharing baseball.

The first time I stepped foot on Comiskey Park during my first radio assignment in 1982, I took in every moment -- the look of the dug-out, the grass on the field, the bats, the big beautiful baseball diamond and could only think about my grandfather. My uncles were big baseball fans too, so it was such a pleasure to take my favorite one to Wrigley and have his picture taken on the field. He was as giddy as a 10 year old. What's funny is that my parents didn’t care for sports at all.

Rick: It's hard to imagine a more male dominated world than the world of professional sports, but you've been thriving in that world for more than twenty years now as a sports reporter and producer. What have been some of the hurdles you've had to overcome?

Cheryl: I actually got my first credential in 1982, gulp! There were many obstacles; there were only a few women on the scene, Channel 2’s Jeanne Morris and Chicago Tribune’s Linda Kaye, but I was the one that ventured into the locker rooms and had to deal with some very unpleasant situations. (Photo: Cheryl with Bob Lanier and Doug Collins)

Additionally, many media members were not that kind. It seemed I was always being tested either for my knowledge or the ability to take the heat. One example, one of my colleagues asked me to call a local head coach to set up an interview. Easy, right? I called and his wife answered. She exploded on me since her husband liked to wander and thought I was one of his girlfriends. She said there wasn’t any women doing sports radio in Chicago. Pretty much told me I was a liar. Of course, my co-worker got a good laugh. It taught me a lesson: Be prepared. After that call, I always knew the wife’s or girlfriend’s name and would use it. They were important to deal with and I respected how tough their lives were being with a professional athlete.

There were times I would go in a locker room and hear nasty comments. When the Bears were in their hey-day during the ‘80s I could cover the games but was denied the open locker room. The first time I stepped in there several players came right up to my face and screamed obscenities. Media members smirked and the PR director ushered me out. I sat outside the door for a few seasons, and then a rookie QB changed it. Jim Harbaugh was brought to me for my usual outside the locker room interviews. He turned to the media relations person with him and asked why I was there and not with the rest of the media. He noted that I was already doing post game locker room interviews. The door opened and I finally went through.

There was another sports personality that I want to acknowledge; White Sox manager, Tony LaRussa. When I got my first credential, he escorted me to all the security people in front of the players and told them to respect my credential.

Too bad not everyone felt that way. Many times I had to figure a way to do what I needed to do without confrontation. Sometimes I used humor. Steve Lyons once struck a pose buck naked. He yelled my name; I turned my head, and then quickly turned back. The next day, I brought a bottle of sun tan lotion and put a note on it…”You need to take care of your tan lines.”

Rick: You're currently reporting sports for WBEZ. I know I've heard you on several different shows, and I've read your blog on their site. Talk a little about some of things you're doing for them these days...

Cheryl: Once AM1000 went under in its original all-sports format, I was re-thinking my career. Sports talk had become too vicious and unpleasant. Out of the blue, eleven years ago, Steve Edwards (photo) contacted me through my website. It was a gift. I had a 3 year old son, wanted to still do sports on the radio and raise him. WBEZ has allowed me that opportunity. I cover all the major sports in town and sometimes we do some other avenues. I am credentialed for all of the teams, Bulls, Blackhawks, Bears, Sox, and Cubs. I cover the games and sometimes do feature interviews. Under the leadership of Justin Kaufmann, my role will be expanding with more blogging and in the studio with Steve Edwards Afternoon Shift show. To me it is such a professional radio station in these crazy media times. The various personnel there have always been respectful of my role.

Rick: We met about twenty years ago when you were with WMVP, but I already knew of your work before then when you were the producer of Chet Coppock's show at WMAQ. I believe he called you "the straw that stirs the drink." Chet's one of the most unique people in our business. How would you describe him to people that have never met him or heard his show?

Cheryl: Chet (photo) is the carnival barker of sports talk radio. He is an entertainer and can ask a question that can run on for five minutes. He should have copyrighted all his clichés. He would introduce a guest saying, “Your dime, your dance floor.” Priceless. He loves his Chicago Bears and probably would love to be in a time machine to go back to that 1985 team. Chet also had strong ties to the WWF and relished the ringside of the wrestling world. He never cares or worries about anything he says about others. Most times, it gets him into hot water. He would verbally go after players, like Greg Luzinski or media people. That always made me very uncomfortable.

Rick: Do you have any favorite memories from your time producing his show?

Cheryl: Getting Chet out of the studio and putting him in the dugout at Comiskey Park and at the old Chicago Stadium. It enhanced the show. But Chet always had this need to eat food, usually popcorn. He would eat on the air and end up choking a few times.

We really had a large cache of guests. Eddie Einhorn, Mike Ditka, top notch college coaches, every Chicago Bear, Cubs and Sox managers, Bulls head coaches. It really was a destination for someone that had something to say in Chicago. When Lou Holtz got the job at Notre Dame, they called us up and asked to have him on the show.

Rick: You've been a sports reporter in Chicago during a few pretty exciting eras, but nothing was more exciting than that Bulls championship run in the 1990s. I know you had your share of scoops during that time. When you think back on that time, what are some of the stories that come to mind?

Cheryl: There are a couple involving Michael Jordan. After his first retirement, a friend of mine that had ties to both the Bulls and Sox told me that MJ was going to play baseball. Almost a year before, we had a pre-game conversation about baseball and he said he always wanted to play. When I was told Jordan’s desire to do it I went to work to get the story. After gathering information and enlisting Jim O’Donnell to work together to get it published, I broke the story on WMVP’s air with host Jay Mariotti. He told me it was baloney. Gratefully, Channel 2’s Tim Weigel ran the story and gave full credit. (Photo: Michael Jordan in White Sox uniform on the day of his baseball press conference)

Than less than two years later, I was at the Berto. Michael was gone, and so was the media, beat reporters got off the beat. I was the only one from the first championships still covering the team. I got word that Jordan had left spring training in Sarasota; I noticed the noise behind the curtain was familiar. I happened to be in contact with a player’s friend who confirmed that it was MJ. After practice, I waited until the handful of media finished and asked Phil Jackson and a player if Michael was at practice. They both confirmed it. As I was on the air, reporting the story, my beeper was going off. I ignored it and called who was beeping me later. It was the player’s friend who had MJ with him but had left since I didn’t call quickly enough.

Rick: Tell us about some of your brushes with sports greatness in other sports.

Cheryl: I was at the Italian-American Hall of Fame ceremony for Joe DiMaggio. He was surrounded by a slew of people when we met. I spent most of my time sitting next to and talking with Stan Musial. He was fabulous, kind and gracious.

Not long before he died I found Harold “Red” Grange in Florida…by using a phone book. He was frail but was terrific. It was one of those moments. My eyes welled up thinking about how important he was to the NFL.

Also, found Luke “Aches and Pains” Appling by calling information. He and I had a wonderful interview about Comiskey Park and his years with the Sox.

Chet had wonderful connections with many sports figures and I was fortunate to meet and spend time with them. One was former Bear great, Sid Luckman, gentle and generous.

A few months before his illness was revealed, I did a 45 minute interview with tennis great Arthur Ashe. One of the most intelligent men I ever met. We talked about apartheid and his quest to have the history of African-American sports figures come to light. Loved dealing with Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova. Smart and funny.

I ghost wrote for Dick Vitale in the ‘80’s. We talked several times a week. He has two personas, his on air wild and crazy commentating, and his considerate and almost demur side off the air.

I am very fortunate to have met and or interviewed so many people. It’s a long list. (Photo: Cheryl in the Cubs dugout with Dusty Baker)





Rick: You also got a chance to meet and chat with a couple of movie stars covering this beat. Where and how did you meet John Cusack and Tom Hanks?

Cheryl: Both were at Sox Park, Cusack at the old one when he was preparing for “Eight Men Out”. He sat next to me for three days asking me questions. When he showed up at Wrigley the following year, he didn’t know me.

At new Comiskey, Tom Hanks was working on, “A League of Their Own”. He was on the infield during the Sox batting practice. Jeff Torborg was the manager and had his usual team meetings, and Tom couldn’t go in the locker room, so I thought, what the heck, and asked him to do an interview. He did. I didn’t want to overstep, so when I finished the interview, I thanked him and started to leave. He told me to stay and we continued talking.

There is one more person I met that was a nice highlight. I was standing behind the Cubs batting cage and some ladies came up to me. They asked me who I was, and what my job was. They were Hillary Clinton’s assistants. When I told them what I did, they said she would be interested in meeting me. She came to the press box, and I was called over and had a great chat with her.

Rick: And finally, if you could go back and re-live one sporting event that you've covered during your reporting career, which event would it be and why?

Cheryl: That is the hardest; I covered the Bears in Super Bowls, all six Bulls championships, Blackhawks and Sox titles. There is no bigger thrill than seeing the crowning of a team that you covered and knew from the time you were a kid. They each have a story and a great feeling. This may sound strange, but I would love to see any game regular season or playoff with Michael Jordan. Just to see him fly through the air, play defense, hit the winning shot like he did against Cleveland in 1990. I would pay to see the greatest players up close one more time.

Greg Bell

Greg Bell is the host of "When Radio Was" (which airs on WBBM-AM 780 in Chicago), and Sirius XM RadioClassics







Rick: First of all, I always enjoy talking to a fellow Illini. I think we were there around the same time (I graduated in 1985), although if I'm not mistaken, you didn't even do radio back in those days...

Greg: That's right, I was a cinema studies major at the University of Illinois and also studied theater. Never made my way over to WPGU, but certainly listened quite often and remembered you, Rick. And I even followed you when you headed to Chicago to work, I believe with Steve & Garry.

Rick: How did you get your big break into the business?

Greg: After bouncing around the west doing the "ski bum" thing and realizing acting was not what I wanted to do, I ended up back near my hometown in Springfield, IL and, on a whim, went into the local TV and radio stations looking for a job. At WFMB, they handed me some copy, placed me in front of a microphone and recorded me. It was atrocious, but the program director simply said, "Can you come in this Friday night?" I worked the overnight weekend shift for that country music radio station for the next few months. At the time, I knew almost nothing about country music, so I "boned up" on it by watching The Nashville Network.

I didn't last more than a year though, and ended up back in Colorado, this time settling in Steamboat Springs. I was managing a restaurant, but one evening was talking with a DJ at a nightclub there and he just happened to be the PD at KFMU, the local rock station. He talked me into taking my one day off per week and coming in and doing the overnight shift. I was back in the business. I transitioned over to the news and sports department working first as just a reporter (covering city council meetings, court proceedings, ski racing events, etc) then later became the news director. In 1994, our morning team (known as Greg & Greg) won best medium market morning show at the Colorado Broadcasting Association awards and that led to getting hired in Boise, Idaho.

I spent a year in Boise, not only doing the morning show for a Adult Alternative music station (KF-95) but also programming the automated AM (KFXD). I tossed out most of the lowly rated political talk shows and replaced them with entertainment based programs. One of the shows I added was the DC based Don & Mike Show, and that gave me a connection to Westwood One.

In 1996, I relocated to the Baltimore/Washington area and after helping produce the Washington Wizards (then still the Bullets) radio post-game show, I went to work for Westwood One producing weekend talks shows. In 2000, I went to work for an internet based financial company producing their radio talk show. After 9/11 and the subsequent financial hit, that company laid off about 1/3 of their staff including me. For the most of that year, I had been trying to get out talk show picked up by a newfangled technology known as satellite radio, and had been resisting offers to take a job there. In December of 2001, I was hired at XM Satellite Radio in DC for the now-defunct USA Today channel (basically a radio version of the newspaper.) In the summer of 2002, they launched two new spoken word channels, Sonic Theater and RadioClassics. I was hired to run the classic radio channel, and was able to draw on my knowledge of classic films and television to also host the channel. This year marks my 10th year there and also my 5th year as the host of When Radio Was.

Rick: Your show "When Radio Was" has a long and interesting history.

Greg: That's true. It began in the late 1980s as a local show in Chicago created by old-time radio collector, Carl Amari. He was the original host but in 1990 when it went national, television game show host Art Fleming (photo, original host of Jeopardy) was hired to host it. Following Fleming's death in 1995, famed satirist Stan Freberg became the host of When Radio Was until he retired from the show in 2006. Chicago native and old-time radio expert Chuck Schaden initially replaced Freberg, but after less than a year, he also moved on and I became the host beginning in October of 2007. Quite a humbling experience to follow such genuine media legends.

Rick: I'm doing the math in my head, and I know that based on your age, you obviously didn't experience any of these old time radio shows the first time around. How did you get into this era of radio?

Greg: As I was indeed born in the 1960s, I was too young to had listened to these shows when they originally played. What is often called "The Golden Age Of Radio" wrapped up in 1962, when CBS, the last network still playing weekly radio theater, ended that with the final episodes of Suspense and Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar. Personally I was always a fan of classic media, old films, TV shows and radio.

I also grew up listening to the revival radio shows including Himan Brown's CBS Radio Mystery Theater in the 1970s and The Elliott Lewis led Sears Radio Theater in the late 70s early 80s. And I was a fan of Chuck Schaden's Those Were The Days and listened to When Radio Was during the Fleming and Freberg era. The entire reason the XM (now Sirius XM) RadioClassics channel was created was to introduce all these wonderful shows to a whole new audience, who like myself, were not around when they originally aired. Great storytelling is truly timeless, and these shows prove that.

Rick: Do you have any favorite old-time radio shows that to you, really show all that the medium can be?

Greg: Ah, the old "who is your favorite child question?" I love most of the shows I play, but if I had to pick a few favorites I would have to do it by genre.

Comedies: Jack Benny (photo) is the king, but for great chemistry and timeless humor; my favorite is The Phil Harris & Alice Faye Program. Harris and Elliott Lewis as his pal, Frankie Remley were Cramden and Norton before the Honeymooners came along.

The top thriller and mystery series: For me they are Suspense and The Whistler both had tremendous storytelling and tfeatured different themes each week, so it might be a murder mystery one week, science fiction the next and so on.

Police dramas: Dragnet was a radio show first and is very well done, but I also recommend Broadway Is My Beat (follows NYPD detective Danny Clover) and The Lineup.

The Westerns; sure everyone remembers The Lone Ranger, Hopalong Cassidy and Red Ryder, and they are entertaining but were targeted for younger listeners. So my favorites are Frontier Gentleman, Fort Laramie (featuring future Perry Mason star Raymond Burr) and Gunsmoke. Radio's Gunsmoke which debuted three years before TV version is easily the best of the bunch. With a whole different cast (William Conrad was the voice of Marshall Dillon) Gunsmoke was much more than a western, they writers tackled issues of the 1950s like racism, xenophobia, domestic abuse while setting the stories in the late 19th Century American West.

Rick: These old shows sound pristine on the radio, which is really a challenge considering some of them 70 years old now. Is it just because I'm hearing them on AM Radio (and therefore not hearing the imperfections), or have they all been digitally restored?

Greg: When Radio Was and Sirius XM RadioClassics Channel 82 both get their content from Radio Spirits, the preeminent OTR company and yes they digital restore the shows, many of them transferred from the original recording medium including reel-to-reel magnetic tape, transcription wire and transcription discs (basically over-sized record albums)
Some of the original audio is so fragile, it falls apart during the restorations, so they often only have one shot to get them transferred before they are lost forever. Quite a remarkable process.

Rick: The show is syndicated into something like 200 markets, and it's also on satellite radio, and on-line at talkzone.com, but where are you yourself located?

Greg: I'm based in the Washington DC area, but as long-time listeners are well aware, do to my numerous on air mentions of Illinois, my heart is still in my native state.

Rick: I've seen a few old-time radio shows re-created live on stage, and it's truly fascinating to watch. Have you ever participated in shows like that, and if so, is there any way something like that might be coming to Chicago?

Greg: I have been involved in creating modern radio dramas, but at this point only in studio and not on the stage. One I am currently working on, "Western Law" is planned for a live performance before an audience. It is based on a story by friend and OTR fan Derek Haas (A Hollywood screenwriter who co-wrote "Wanted", The "3:10 to Yuma" remake and currently is co-writing the proposed NBC series "Chicago Fire".) It is my hope that we will be able to do more in front of audiences, and Chicago with such a thriving theater culture would be a great place to do one.

Rick: So, when you talk to someone that hosts a show called "When Radio Was", you can't avoid the question: What are your thoughts about "What Radio Is" now? Can it ever reclaim it's former glory?

Greg: I do believe that 10 years of satellite radio as well as all the internet radio has also spurred on the traditional radio stations to re-consider how they present their products. Not sure if it is improving, but I do think that listening to the past like shows played on "When Radio Was" trigger the creative juices of modern radio folks. It is contagious and very, very addictive.

Happy Easter

Have a nice Easter/Passover weekend.

Chicago Radio Spotlight will return next weekend.

Pugs Moran

Pugs Moran worked in Chicago at WLUP, Q-101 and WCKG, and has been down in Dallas for the last ten plus years, working as the co-host of the Pugs & Kelly show.





Rick: You and I crossed paths many years ago when you were part of the Kevin Matthews show at the Loop in the early 90s. How did you get that first gig with Kevin, and how would you describe your role on his show?

Pugs: I was working at Shadow traffic and Kathy Voltmer (photo) got the ball rolling when she brought me down to the Loop newsroom to assist on the legendary Eddie Schwartz show. I will never forget my first overnight at the Loop. It was quiet but oddly active at the same time. I compare it to the first time my grandfather took me to a Sox game…My first sight of that green outfield and the light towers and hearing Nancy Faust. It was one of the most important nights of my life; and then I met Mitch Rosen.

I either drank or was held down and forced to drink his Kool-ade. Mitch was kicking ass and taking names at a clip I had never seen. He offered me a ride on his coat tails, told me I would go through hell and promised nothing. I took the offer and have pledged eternal loyalty. All hail Chunga! Mitch took over the Kevin Matthews morning show and I often wonder if people remember how funny Mitch is. Chunga, Herb Katzenberg and many others were staples of that show and they were 100% Mitch Rosen creations. I know because I was right there watching him create them. I think the reason Mitch is great with Talent as PD is because he is himself very talented.

I was kept sequestered from Kevin for the first month or so. Then one day while working in the green room, the one with the great window view on 37, Kev walks in eating a homemade sandwich from a brown paper bag.

He just stood over me staring for what felt like hours but was probably as long as it took him to chew. I was frozen at the idea that the most creatively gifted guy I had ever heard was looming over me. I expected his first words to be something hysterical, something that would come from way out in left field. He finally said, “Hey bud, you want half of my sandwich”? That was first contact, then the next morning while listening from the office I remember hearing Jim say “hey Kev, who is that fat kid that’s always hanging around?” I became the fat kid that would do “anything for the show”. I was pure slapstick and I don’t know if any of it was funny but I know one thing, I made Kevin laugh and to me that was the golden wonka ticket. If we all have a radio family we spring from then mine is, Kev, Mitch, Geli, Peggy, Swanny, Dorothy and my big brother always the late and loved Doc.

Rick: I look back now at that stable of young pups that worked at the Loop, guys like Wiser, Swany, Shemp, Artie Kennedy, Jimmy Mac, Vince Argento, Neil Sant, Danny McNeil, Tom Serritella, the list goes on and on. There were a lot of us that learned at the feet of the masters, and we've all gone on to success in various different arenas. What did you learn during those days that you've taken with you everywhere else you've gone?

Pugs: WOW, what an Amazing list of studs. I would see your list and add Geli Silkowski, Steve Sauer, Doc Simpson and really nothing got done without Clarkson and Super Sue. The point is, there was a whole lot of talent there, but there were classes. I always considered my class was Artie, Neil and Jimmy Mac (photo). We were all the same age and went out to shows and drank too much. The guys like Wiser and Shemp were upper class-men they had semi management positions and families at home. I always felt slightly intimidated around those guys and learned a lot observing them.

I have taken everything I learned at the Loop with me everywhere I have gone. “Free FM” was a BS cookie cutter format and that post Stern CBS “fm talk” circus was a disaster just about everywhere, but not for Kelly and me. The station we were on in Dallas was one of the earliest CBS fm talkers and the Last I believe to fold. The success of that station way down there was entirely because of the “Loop influence”.

The Great Reid Reker created that station immediately following his involvement in the creation of CKG’s “The Package”; and we all know CKG’s talk format was very Loop influenced. That station in Dallas had gone through four midday shows in two years before we took over. We were the only show that could carry over the Stern audience while doing something totally different. They appreciated that and we built a good relationship with his show’s audience.

The fact is we did a “Loop style” show, a bad rookie imitation of a 1983 Steve and Garry show, funneled through Wendy and Bill and repackaged as “Pugs and Kelly”. A third generation knock off in anyone’s book but the novelty of it in Texas allowed us the time to develop our own voices and the show became what it is.

But I don’t believe you could have spent any time around those people at that station and not been influenced by each and every one of them. They were a dream team, a radio production street gang that drank and did other things a lot! The air talent was the best and the best tend to have the best working for them.

Rick: After leaving the Loop, you worked with Bill (Leff) and Wendy (Snyder) at Q-101 as one of their producers there. I always thought they pulled the plug on that show just before it was ready to take off. You were there at the time. What are your thoughts about it?

Pugs: The biggest mistake in Chicago radio history! I was there and I couldn’t believe what I was watching.

I believe the reason Eric and Kathy are the massive successes they are is due in large part to the demise of Wendy and Bill. I think it is very easy to imagine that Wendy and Bill could have seen the same level of success.

Q101 had no idea what they had. Bill Gamble did but he left. Nobody understood how talented and I don’t mean to over state this but in my opinion, “The Wendy and Bill show” is the greatest show that never was and my second favorite show of all time. They should be the two nicest filthy rich radio people Chicago has ever known, but they aren’t and that sucks. Wendy and Bill were the single greatest influence on the Pugs and Kelly show. They showed us how to do “Steve and Garry” with a man and a woman and make it all gender neutral. Kelly and I are a flipped script of Wendy and Bill. I equate Kelly to Bill Leff in that she always has the first and funniest remark. I cannot compare myself to Wendy (photo) in any way. I’m not in her league but I would like to be the master broadcaster she is.

Rick: I have to ask you about this, because it was a big news story when it happened. You were also part of a big controversy at WCKG--when you and Kelly were recorded having a private conversation without your permission. There were lawsuits and settlements and months of high drama. Looking back on that now, all these years later, what are your thoughts about that incident?

Pugs: It was the most impactful experience of my career.

I was in my 20s and after years and years of grunt work Kelly and I were being given our shot. Kelly was married to Shemp at the time and she was also acting as Steve’s assistant. Reed Reeker agreed to give Kelly and me a show. I left my job at AM 1000 doing afternoon sports updates with Kevin Matthews and Kelly left her Job as Steve’s assistant. We are massive Steve and Garry fans and cite them as our primary influences, the chance to do a show on a station with Steve was a career goal and we couldn’t help but think all our aspirations were going to come true…and then they didn’t.

For me it was just terrible. I had lost my job and more than likely my career and my marriage was crumbling. Kelly was out of work, Shemp was out of work, Kelly was 6 months pregnant and they were half way through building a new house. It was just a nasty regrettable ugly time, but from it all came Reid Reker being promoted to GM in Dallas and he hired the “Pugs and Kelly show”.

Today I still see Steve Dahl (photo) as my favorite all time broadcaster. The greatest compliment I receive down here in Dallas is from listeners who are former Chicagoans who say “You remind me of Steve Dahl”, I better, I’ve been trying to channel him for 15 years.

Rick: How did you adapt to Texas, and how did Texas accept you?

Pugs: Oh man they hated us and many still do. We were progressive talking blue collar Chicagoans. “Carpet bagging Yankees” in the local vernacular, and we changed nothing about our style or accents. We didn’t say “Y’all” we said “you guys”. I wasn’t shy about my hatred for the Cowboys or complaining about my disgust with what Texans consider pizza. We did a fish out of water act, 100% honestly discussing our life the way Steve and Garry would. At the time we felt exiled from our true radio homes of Chicago and were just going to use this time in Dallas to hone our show before returning. Getting back to Chicago remains the top goal of our show.

One thing did happen that sped our bonding along and that was 9/11. If the Pugs and Kelly show were never to air again I would be ok with those shows being our legacy. Talk radio was just amazing and we were all so kind to one another and supportive. Dallas was maybe a little more “Target sensitive” in those days because of it being the Presidents home town and all, but that’s when I really came to understand that amazing breed that we call Texans. I will take a Texan in an emergency situation any day of the week..well most Texans…lol

Rick: How would you describe the Pugs and Kelly show to someone who has never heard it?

Pugs: F***ing awesome! But I am a bit biased. Some of the descriptions I like. “A brother and sister trapped in a hot back seat during a family road trip”, “George and Elaine doing radio” and this one from the Dallas morning news, “The greatest live read artists ever to don headphones”. I like that one because it’s something we work very hard on. Conversational chemistry is our thing and if it’s effective selling product our show gets to stay on the air. We are at our heart a full service lifestyle talk show for the reality generation.

Our show is talking about whatever the world is and when we aren’t doing that we are talking about our girlfriends or ex wives or mothers or kids. Sometimes I think that if Bravo produced a radio show we would be it. We exploit our lives in the hopes that the listener will relate. Our most popular bits are our advice segments. We act as life coaches whose own bad choices can’t help but influence the advice we give. The problem is, there aren’t any formats that want “real people” in the way WGN has always done. Everyone must have an act these days, you either hate Obama or are obsessed with Sports. Those are all the opportunities for radio talkers and that’s why all the talent is running to podcasting.

Rick: I know the road has been a little bumpy the last few years down there in Dallas. Describe a few of the ups and downs you've experienced down there.

Pugs: The ups would have to be the ratings successes and the legendary station we helped build here.

The downs are a seemingly endless string of poor decisions coupled with bad breaks and a tragic economy. A few years back we jumped at the chance to do mornings at a competing station here in Dallas. During the negotiation the economy collapsed and talk in the morning drive became talk in the afternoons and 3 weeks later it was 7 metal songs and hour. A few months later our station flipped to some kind of Latino hip hop and Kelly and I were given a two year paid vacation, which we negotiated away a month later in order to pursue our next mistake. (Photo: Pugs & Kelly with show producers Sybil Summers and Eric Mark)

We were still a bit of a “commodity” so we decided to do something risky but potentially very rewarding. We raised a bunch of money and went in with an independent group who had purchased their own AM station here in Dallas. We did a full service and progressive leaning talk format in President Bush’s back yard during a major economic recession. What could possibly go wrong? Well everyone went broke.

Rick: What are you up to now?

Pugs: The Pugs and Kelly show has been on a break recently as Kelly just had a baby boy. The previous year we had been doing a pretty successful daily subscription pod cast that was also simulcast locally in DFW on 1190am in the noon hour. It is our hope that something will one day open up In Chicago, so we could end our exile, but if that never happens, we can continue our new media and podcast shows in our adoptive land of Texas. I am currently working with a marketing and live event promotions group on creating a DFW podcast network. There are millions of opportunities out there right now and corporate radio just doesn’t seem to be recognizing it…and that is a good thing for us.

Rick: Have you ever pitched the show to any stations here in Chicago? Someone is always looking for a new personality show, and what would be better than native Chicagoans with a history in this town?

Pugs: I agree Rick, sounds win win to me, but not really. We have been wined and dined in New York city and given the Hollywood treatment in LA. There was a feeding frenzy a few years back when Howard was leaving CBS. There were jobs opening up everywhere and Kelly and I scammed our way into the “FM Talkers” line of succession. We had grown very close with Opie and Anthony and they helped us a lot with meeting the right people. Despite all of the flattery and outside interest, we would have taken the first offer from Chicago, but it never came. The exile continued.

I have reached out and introduced myself to the programmers I admire just to try and stay on the radar, Drew Hayes and recently Bill White at WGN, but I have never been up for or gone after anything in Chicago. I think it is for the same reason I buy lottery tickets but never check the numbers. If I check the numbers and lose, the dream dies. I believe that “the Pugs and Kelly show” could be dominant in Chicago for the next 20 years. I believe we could go up against Eric and Kathy and take their listeners.

I am really interested in WGN and what they are doing. Anybody that has Bill Leff and Garry Meier has a preset on my dial. I am also eternally interested in “the Loop” for obvious reasons and Q101 or whatever the hell it’s called now. I am a great believer in talk on the FM band for a younger more active audience. Kelly and I could go do well there, but they must decide what they are first. They must add some “chat shows”, find some unique personalities to help create an image for the format. The podcast world is filled with amazing and unknown talent. Feature some! I have been glaring at that station since its birth and I’m lost but I confidently believe I could fix it. Our show did very well on a male 25/54 station but the real numbers were in 18/34 and women.

We had the Bubba’s listening but unlike other shows we also had the soccer moms and the drag queens. There is a big talk audience outside of 25/54 male, and it’s just sitting there; somebody will go after it and we know how to get them. She’s north side and I’m south side, we met at the Loop in the early 90s and created a Chicago style talk show and killed with it…In Texas! Imagine how good we might do in our hometown surrounded by people from high school we are trying to impress? Hey, I think I may have just pitched “the Pugs and Kelly show” there. Wish us Luck.

Doug Dahlgren

Doug Dahlgren was a prominent voice in Chicago radio during the 1970s, most famously during his time at WCFL.






Rick: You've worked all over the country, including obviously Chicago, but you hadn't worked here in a long time. What made you decide to retire here?

Doug: I was working in Olympia, Washington, and we were doing well in Seattle, but getting paid Olympia rates, if you know what I mean, so I finally just gave my notice. For the first time in my life my timing was right, because they blew up the station shortly after that. It was my last radio job.

We came to Chicago because my wife and I have friends and family in Milwaukee, and hey--if you could choose between Chicago (which is close enough) and Milwaukee, where would you choose? (Laughs). Actually we've been here now seven years, but we were really only planning on staying for five. I love it here, and it's been great, but we miss the mountains and salt water. I have a boat that I love, and I suspect we'll move back out west at some point.

Rick: You went to high school in the Chicago area (Bloom, and Homewood Flosmoor) in the late 1950s. Were there any air personalities on the air during that time that influenced you or your approach to radio?

Doug: Wally Phillips, without a doubt. I was doing a project for a church group and I needed some sound effects, and because I was a fan and knew that Wally used a lot of them, I just showed up at the station one afternoon and asked if I could see Wally. He gave me all the sound effects discs I could carry--and told me to bring them back when I was through with them. That was incredibly generous of him. Another person I listened to in those days was Howard Miller. He and Wally were the biggest stars in Chicago.

Rick: I know your radio saga has many stops in those early years including Iowa, Wisconsin, and Florida, but how did you get that first big break to return to Chicago at WDAI?

Doug: I was at WTMJ in Milwaukee at the same time Bob Collins was in Milwaukee, so when he was named the PD in Miami, we went there together. (Photo: Bob Collins, Doug Dahlgren & Dick Sainte). I was the morning guy. Bob was a great guy to hang around with, a turd to work for (laughs), but a great guy. It didn't last too long. They blew up that station, and Bob went back to Milwaukee. After it blew up in Miami, Gary Price called me. He was the PD of WDAI at the time, and asked me to come over and do mornings for him. Shortly after that, he was hired by WCFL, and brought me along with him.

Rick: It's safe to say you're best known in Chicago for your time at WCFL in the 1970s, when you were teamed up with Dick Sainte as Dick and Doug. How did the two of you become a team?

Doug: Dick was working in mornings with Tom Murphy and I replaced Tom, and I still don't know the story of why--of what happened there with him. But Dick and I hit it off right away, our timing was immediately perfect. We never stepped on each other. We became almost like brothers off the air. Later on, he lived in Oregon when I did too, so we'd see him all the time. He had a huge career after WCFL too. He passed away a few years ago.

Rick: Do you have any favorite memories from that WCFL era?

Doug: Every day was fun. We had a good time on the air, but we probably had even more fun off the air. There was a bowling alley in the building, and we hit that together a lot. We drove to the coast together (to SF) once--took a good week or more to get there--and had a great time along the way. We were hawking a syndicated show in LA one time--though that didn't fly. Every day was a gas. We had a great engineer at the time named Warren Callahan. Loved working with him. His relief engineer was Al Urbanski, and he was just great too. (Rick's note:My story about Al Urbanski & Ann Margret is here) John Tondelli also worked there. We had the best engineers in the business.

Rick: That job ended when WCFL abruptly changed formats and became a beautiful music station. I know that was a shock to WCFL fans. Was it a shock to you?

Doug: Yeah, we read about it in the paper in Gary Deeb's column. The next morning they held a staff meeting, and said "Sorry, it wasn't supposed to leak out yet, but that's the way it goes." Dick and I asked if we could have one more show together, and they said yes. Though, in the middle of that last show, they came in and yanked us off the air because we were talking about the format change. That was considered a big no-no. (Photo: Doug with Elton John)

Rick: I've watched that Steve Edwards/AM Chicago interview on YouTube a few times. (You can watch it here: Part 1 and Part 2). You both sounded pretty upbeat at the time, but you ended up having to go your separate ways, didn't you?

Doug: Nobody was knocking on our door. (laughs) Not for jobs anyway. Wally called us both up the next morning and had us on the air, and I still have no idea how he got our phone numbers. He reached me at my girlfriend's house. Then Fred Winston had us on WLS. That's when I met John Gehron for the first time. Fred asked us how it felt to be escorted out of the studio, and we said, it feels like this, and we carried him out and finished the show for him. (laughs).

Rick: After WCFL, you moved down the Chicago radio dial to WIND. What do you remember about those days?

Doug: Connie Szerszen was doing the 6-10 pm slot at the time. (Photo: Connie & Doug in 2010). Bob Emery took over as PD, and fired Connie, the first time she had ever been fired, and since I was already on staff there, I was the natural successor in that 6-10 slot. There were a lot of stars on that station. We had Howard Miller, Clark Weber, even the weekends were great. It all ended when they decided to make the format "all talk". I went to WMET after that for a year, did mornings for Harvey Pearlman.

Rick: Is my memory faulty or did you also do voiceovers for WFLD at that time?

Doug: Dick and I did that when we were on the air together. We would go over and record tracks for the kid shows.

Rick: I was a kid at the time, I remember it well.

Doug: That was great fun. We got to work with Ray Barnas, and that was a thrill. Ray was the technical director of Don McNeils' Breakfast Club back in the day. After Dick went to San Francisco, I did the tracks by myself for awhile. Then they hired me as their full-time staff announcer, which I have to say, was about the dullest job imaginable. I did that for awhile, and they eventually fired me because I was so bored. I eventually ended up out West.

Rick: So are you really "officially" retired now..or could you be enticed back to terrestrial radio for the right offer?

Doug: Everybody's got their price, so never say never, but probably not. I may agree to some voice work, or do a show from home, but to tell you the truth, I haven't listened to the radio for years. When I listen now, it's all talk or all music, and there's nothing in between. When I was in the racket, it was possible to do both. Personality and Music. That's the kind of radio I liked to do.

Lin Brehmer

The Chicago Tribune has a nice piece today about WXRT morning man, Lin Brehmer. It's a really entertaining article, and I'm not just saying that because I'm quoted in the article.

You can read it here.

Happy St. Patrick's Day

I'm in Arizona enjoying spring training. Chicago Radio Spotlight will return next week.

Happy St. Patrick's Day!

Ken Cocker

Ken Cocker is the Saturday and Sunday afternoon jock at K-Hits, WJMK, 104.3





Rick: This isn't your first go-round at this frequency. (Ken was part of the lineup at Oldies 104.3, WJMK in the late 90s/early 00s). How is it the same or different this time around?

Ken: I think this time around the difference is the music. I know it's similar, but at the old JMK we were jerking back and forth between the decades. Sometimes it was 50s and 60s. Sometimes was 60s and 70s. Sometimes all three. Sometimes they'd throw in a Billy Joel song or something. And we shifted gears a lot. But this station is so solidly focused on this sweet spot of music; it's the 60s, 70s and 80s. That 70s era is really my wheelhouse, and that's really our middle ground. Plus we play my favorite stuff from the 80s, songs like "Cars" by Gary Numan and "867-5309 Jenny" by Tommy Tutone. I really appreciate that consistency.

Rick: I don't how many people know that you were once a professional baseball player. What position did you play and who did you play for?

Ken: I was drafted out of high school (Hersey High School) by the Red Sox organization. I was a pitcher.

Rick: Who was your pitching hero?

Ken: The pitcher I tried to emulate as much as possible was Bob Gibson. I threw real hard like he did, and had the same kind of personality. There was no giggling and goofing off when I was on the mound. I got pissed. Sandy Koufax was another one. Although he was a lefty. I loved the power pitchers.

Rick: Talk a little bit about your minor league days.

Ken: I started out in A ball in Sumter, South Carolina. I had a good season, so the next year I played Double A at Winston Salem, but in the offseason I still came home and worked at UPS. Hell, they paid $11 an hour (laughs). That was good money then! I still had to make enough money to fill up my Pinto.

Rick: So what happened? Did you hurt your arm?

Ken: No, I hurt my leg playing basketball. In those days there were no health clubs, so the teams would make you play basketball games to stay in shape. You were only allowed to miss two games and if you missed a third, they told the big club you weren't showing up. Well, I enjoyed the company of the ladies, and that had already caused me to miss my two. One night, I was in the middle of a date when I remembered I was supposed to be playing a basketball game, and it was going to be my third strike if I didn't get my butt over there. So, I got there late, and didn't warm up properly, and rushed out onto the court, and sure enough, I blew out my knee. It was my pushing-off leg too. Poof. Just like that (snap) my baseball career was over.

Rick: How did you go from baseball to broadcasting?

Ken: My dad said to me, "You better find a job." (laughs) I called the team and they said they could use help at the radio station in Sumter, South Carolina. That's where I had played my A-ball. They didn't call it this at the time, but they needed a color man for the games, so I did it. After the season ended, I didn't know what to do. (Photo: ballpark in Sumter)

They had a music station not too far away, so they said: "Want to try that?" I thought, "Sure, what the heck." But they also told me that I needed to keep sending out tapes to move up the ladder, so I took that to heart. I worked in a town called Camden, then I went to Orangeburg, then to Charleston, then Savannah, and from there, Indianapolis. All of that in a year and a half. I wanted to work in Chicago so I was always looking for the next opportuntiy.

Rick: I started listing all of the stations I've heard you on in Chicago over the years and there's quite a list, isn't there? WMET, The Point, US-99, The River, WCPT, The Loop. Am I missing any?

Ken: I think that's all of them.

Rick: I'm sure there are some great stories from all of those stations, but let's start with the Mighty Met, WMET. That's the first time I remember hearing you.

Ken: That was my first job in Chicago. I was only 21 at the time, and I was working the afternoon shift in 1978-1979. Greg Brown was the morning guy at that time, and Captain Whammo was on right after me. I can confirm that sleeping story he told you a few weeks ago. When I did the afternoon shift and Captain Whammo worked at night, he would go to the Cubs game in the afternoon, and remember, in those days all of the games were in the afternoon. After the game he would come into the studio and sleep behind the transmitter rack. I said to him: "I need some decibels to do this right. You know that, right?" He said "It's OK, man." And I'm not kidding you when I say I cranked the music. The walls were rockin' with Kiss' "I wanna Rock and Roll all night" and Captain Whammo would be there behind the transmitter rack, sleeping through the whole thing.

Rick: You had a nice long run at the Point (WPNT), as I recall. People came and went in that morning slot, but you stayed in afternoon drive for many years. What do you remember most about that station, and that time of your career?

Ken: I started out doing nights, then shifted to afternoons, and it's true, I stayed there for a long time. They rolled through people quite a bit in the mornings. John Calhoun, who I've worked with now at a few stations, was one of them. There were lots more, including Fred Winston.

That was a big thrill working with Fred (photo). I had listened to him in high school, and was a big fan. One time we did a promotion where Fred picked a golf team and I picked another one, and we had a friendly on-air competition. I'm a good golfer and Fred is not, so I was pretty sure my team would win huge. Little did I know that Fred had picked a bunch of ringers, so they kicked my butt.

But Fred was a great guy, and fun to work with. You know I've worked with a lot of these legends now, and each time I was worried that they were going to be full of themselves and hard to deal with, and none of them are. Dick Biondi--great guy. Landecker--great guy. Tommy Edwards is too.

Rick: So what happened at the Point?

Ken: I was there until the station was bought by the forerunner of Clear Channel, and then Bonneville took it over, and they flipped formats, and got rid of all of us. But I have to say, they were real good about it. It was all handled very professionally--we all got our proper severance and everything.

Rick: What was your favorite radio job?

Ken: If I had to pick one, I'd probably pick the one I have now. Maybe it's just that I'm at an age where I'm comfortable with myself, and I know and love the music so much, and maybe it's just the kind of personality I have--I tend to be forward looking, and enjoy living for today. But this is probably my favorite.

Although, I would be remiss if I didn't also mention US-99. I was the first voice heard on that station when we flipped from WE-FM back in 1982. To have that still going strong 30 years later is incredible. We really began with a modest operation. I mean modest. We had one three-deck cart machine and three reel to reel machines, and that was it! We had to play the songs from reel to reel tapes, which was a real pain. No records, no music on cart. There were lots of gaffes because of that.

I remember one time they did a $10,000 contest, which was a TON of money to give away at the time. The premise was that if they didn't play at least four songs in a row, someone would win $10,000. Now, this obviously wasn't supposed to happen for awhile, but because of the set up we had, somebody screwed up almost right away. The first week or so. After that, they put the music on cart, and got a locking cart machine. Once the first song started, it couldn't be stopped until all four carts fired. Of course, wouldn't you know it, a cart blew up, and another $10,000 was out the window. We gave out twenty grand in the first month, and that was our budget for the whole year.

Rick: What years were you there?

Ken: I was there from 1982-1990. Had a great time.

Rick: Still like country music?

Ken: I still listen to it occasionally and enjoy it. I used to date the girl that eventually married Trace Adkins. She's a Hersey High School grad too. There's a bunch of us around. Amy Jacobsen. Jeff Joniak. Dave Corzine. All Hersey grads.

Rick: When I was researching for this interview, I saw a great article about you from 2007. It was about your time at WCPT. I know you were the operations manager there, but the article was mostly about one of your other duties at the time...feeding the cows in the field next to the radio station. That must have been a trip.

Ken: That's a true story. They had cows out there because they had to maintain the agricultural zoning of the building, so they had to have at least two farm animals. They owned two cows. I'm an animal lover, so I volunteered to feed them. Loved those cows. I remember their names. Lollipop has since passed on, but Elsa is still living, and there's a new one now, and his name is Junior. I visit from time to time. I keep in touch with my cows.

Rick: You've worked with just about every conceivable Chicago radio personality over the years, some of whom you've already mentioned. You also grew up in Chicago, listening to Chicago radio. So let me put you on the spot. If you were told to put together the all-time great Chicago jock lineup, living or dead, regardless of cost or availability, who would be on your station?

Ken: How many do I get?

Rick: Let's go with seven.

Ken: OK. Seven. Hmm. Well, Larry Lujack for sure. That's obvious. And of course Tommy Edwards. Let's see. Connie Szerszen. She'd have to be on there. Naturally, Dick Biondi. Fred Winston for sure. I get two more, let's see. John Records Landecker. He's a must. And you know, here's one that not a lot of people mention, but I'm going to say J.J. Jeffrey. I loved him on the air. He was just fantastic!

Rick: Thanks for doing this Ken. I know you're a PGA golfer, and the weather's nice today, so I'll let you go so you can hit the links.

Ken: People will get the wrong idea when you say PGA. I'm not on the tour or anything. I'm only a club pro. People hear that and think "You must be great!" Not really. I'm not as active as I once was. But I am ready to get back out there. I'm waiting for the snow piles to melt, we still have a few out here in the boonies, but if it stays nice like this, that's where you'll find me.